Five by Five—The search for faith

Chelsea Kim Long

By Max Bowen 

Raised in evangelical churches, Chelsea Kim Long had a clear vision of the Christian woman she was born to be, but after a traumatic birthing experience and postpartum depression, she found that vision―and her faith―shattered. Instead of giving up on her faith, she looked within and asked: What would Christianity beyond patriarchy look like?

“Faithfully Dissident Daughters: Reclaiming Christian Womanhood Beyond Patriarchy” (Westminster John Knox Press, September 8, 2026) shows what it takes to reclaim Christian womanhood beyond the patriarchal influences that have historically marred Biblical interpretations.

In this article, Chelsea talks about her original vision of her Christian life, what happened to change it and how the patriarchy of the church has harmed women. 

Learn more at www.chelseakimlong.com/


What happened to change your original vision of who you were supposed to be?
I did everything right, according to the conservative Christian world I grew up in. I was named Countess of Christianity at my Christian high school prom. Met the good Christian boy on a mission trip, married young, had a baby at 27. The birth didn't go the way I planned, and a few months in I was sobbing on the couch telling my husband I wanted my life back. That was supposed to be the happy ending. It was the beginning of a painful journey to a truer version of myself.

How did your perspective change?
Slowly, and not on purpose. I'd grown up holding two beliefs that don't work together: that I could hear God myself, and that if what I heard didn't match the church's interpretation, I was wrong. That trains you out of trusting yourself, which is great for keeping you controllable. Once I saw that the structure was built by men, and that their reading of the Bible worked well for men, I couldn't unsee it. When I left conservative church world, I didn't leave God; I went looking for a version of faith that let me see myself.

What kind of theological research did you do and what was learned?
Years of it, mostly deep dives on ancient Hebrew and Greek, feminist theology, and church history. The short version: the divine feminine has always existed in Christianity, and women have always led. El Shaddai, usually translated "God Almighty," shares a root with the Hebrew word for breast. Wisdom in Proverbs is a woman. Mary Magdalene was called Apostle to the Apostles in the early church, then recast as a prostitute by a sixth-century pope. Rome didn't correct that until 1969. In 1748, Moravians in Bethlehem, Pennsylvania, carved a prayer to the Holy Spirit as Mother into stone that still stands.

How has the patriarchy in the church harmed women?
Purity culture teaches girls to be ashamed of their bodies while teaching boys they can't control theirs. Marriage and motherhood get sold to women as our highest aspiration. We get blamed for divorces and reproductive choices. We're expected to make our pain palatable and swallow our grief. Under all of it is training in not trusting yourself, which for me led to debilitating anxiety. Here's what I want people to hear: I had every advantage in that system and it still didn't work. That's not personal failure. That's the theology working as designed, to uplift some and suppress others.

What do you hope readers take from this?
That you don't have to pick. Most of the books I read while I was falling apart ended with the author leaving, and I closed every one of them a little disappointed, because I wanted to stay. I wanted to know if there was a version of this faith big enough to hold my actual life. That's my book. If you've ever been told that becoming more yourself means becoming less faithful, “Faithfully Dissident Daughters” argues the exact opposite. Your body, your anger, your intuition, all of it belongs.

Five by Five—New book offers a deep dive into the story of Mary Magdalene

By Max Bowen 

Just how much is known about the story behind Mary Magdalene?

It’s a question that inspired Ursula Werner to find out for herself, which led to her new book, “Magda Revealed” (She Writes Press).

In this book, “Magda leads readers through tales of miracles and murder, jealousy and acceptance, misogyny, and female empowerment. She uncovers her relationship with Jesus, clarifying centuries of speculation about whether or not they were in love.” In this interview, Werner talks about the research done and what was available, how it sheds new light on the story of Mary Magdalene and ‘sets the record straight.’

What research was done for your book and did this change the direction of the story?
I started my research by reading everything I could find – which was woefully little – on the historical Mary Magdalene. I was surprised at how sparse the historical record was, though maybe I shouldn’t have been, given that she was a woman from the first century. By contrast, there were many books written on Mary Magdalene as an icon or mythological figure, but I wanted, as much as possible, to stick to history, not myth.

I was much more successful in finding books about the historical Jesus, by which I mean Jesus of Nazareth, the man who lived on Earth from about 4-6 B.C. to 31-33 A.D. (The exact dates of his birth and death are not known.) Interestingly, all my biographies of Jesus sit on a bookshelf in my living room, right above the shelf that contains my biographies of Hitler (because my first novel was a World War II saga that featured a Führer-like character).

I also did research, mostly in academic publications, to get a better understanding of life in first century Judea. Topics included everything from Jewish marriage law to women in the synagogues to common vegetation around the Sea of Galilee.

The biggest change in direction of the story came not from my research, but from an insight I had while running in Rock Creek Park one day. (I like to mull my writing issues around in my brain while I’m running.) Out of the blue, I had the idea that provides a plot twist at the end of the novel. That plot twist definitely changed the focus of the story.

How did this change your perception of Magda?
I wouldn’t say that my perception of Magda changed much due to my research, because I knew she wasn’t a prostitute – a slander invented and perpetuated by Pope Gregory I in the 6th century. What did come across from my research was that Mary Magdalene must have been a strong woman, to leave her home and family in order to follow a penniless itinerant preacher, with a group of unknown men and women. I channeled that strength and conviction into my Magda character, and also gave her a spiritual dimension that I’m sure the real Mary Magdalene had.

My Magda’s skill in anointment came from a book I read by Professor Bruce Chilton, who wrote one of the few biographies of Mary Magdalene that exist. Professor Chilton pointed out that anointment was a common female skill in the first century, practiced by the women of every household on a daily basis. It wasn’t just a rite practiced by priests during the coronation of kings and princes. That particular insight helped me direct the focus of the story from Jesus’s healing skills to Magda’s own spiritual gifts.

What light does this shed on the story of Mary Magdalene?
My research on Mary Magdalene and Jesus made clear to me how much more important Mary Magdalene was to Jesus’s ministry than the Catholic Church has acknowledged. Not only was she not a prostitute, she was perhaps the closest disciple to Jesus among his followers. And because of that intimacy, according to the Gospel of Mary Magdalene and the Gospel of Philip, he gave her special knowledge that he did not give his other disciples. Thus, she truly was the “disciple of the disciples,” as the Catholic Church has recently, albeit very belatedly, acknowledged.

What I also found, in comparing the history of Jesus’s life with that of the Roman empire, was a fascinating possible connection between what happened in Rome in October of AD 31 and the Passover holiday in Jerusalem five months later (most likely the occasion of Jesus’ crucifixion). This nexus is fleshed out fully in the novel, but it centers on Lucius Aelius Sejanus, head of the palace guard for the Roman Emperor Tiberius. In October of 31 AD, Sejanus was executed for sedition in Rome. Enraged at Sejanus’ betrayal, Tiberius killed everyone who was perceived to be the traitor’s friend or ally. Because Sejanus had appointed Pontius Pilate to his position in Judea years earlier, it’s unlikely that Pilate, upon hearing the news five months later, would have done anything to antagonize the Emperor. (Tiberius had a standing decree that religions in occupied provinces should be given the greatest deference.) This history made me believe that Pilate would not willingly have ordered the execution of Jesus, a beloved and popular rabbi, during the most holy week in the Jewish calendar.

How does this story “set the record straight” on Magda?
First and foremost, I hope the story convinces people that Mary Magdalene was not a prostitute. That remains a wide-held misconception to this day, and it makes me angry on her behalf whenever there’s any reference to the falsehood. I’m constantly tempted to write letters to the editor of offending journals or newspapers saying, “You know, of course, that Mary Magdalene was not a prostitute.”

I tried to make my character Magda breathe some life into a figure that has become largely mythological in our culture. I don’t think you have to turn Mary Magdalene into a whore, as Pope Gregory I did, to make her accessible as a human being with real flaws and real strengths. To the degree my characterization of her does bring Mary Magdalene to life, I hope that people might relate to her spiritual journey and her calling – the establishment of true connection with another human being.

What do you hope readers take from the book?
At best, the book will plant a seed in readers’ minds, a seed of hope and connection for the human race. We are now living in such a divisive time, I would love the message of the book to challenge our discord and help us see our similarities instead of our differences. Jesus’s message in the first century – that everyone is equal, that no one should consider themselves above anyone else – is as compelling and necessary today as it was back then. I believe that message and our understanding of it to be critical to our survival as a species, both in terms of our interactions with each other, and our interactions with the planet that holds us.

Thomas Smith takes on an imaginative journey with “Other Places”

Horror author Thomas Smith has written some wildly terrifying tales over the years, and in his new horror collection, “Other Places” (Cemetery Dance), he brings us 16 different stories, all in his signature style.

In this interview, Thomas talks about the phone call from friend of the show Kevin Lucia that got this book rolling, and how he created each story. We learn which was the most fun to write, and get a peek at some of the themes and ideas he incorporated.

We look at the dedication to fellow horror writer Joe Cherkes and the history between the two that led to Thomas choosing Joe for this honor. Thomas talks about his own type of writing and what he hopes the reader gets out of it—and you may be surprised by what he has to say.

Sister Shalom’s journey through faith and music

For Dallas-based artist Sister Shalom, music began at a young age and has taken many turns along the way. Likewise, her life as a person of faith has seen some changes and in this interview, she shares both aspects of her life.

Sister Shalom began her ministry as an independent artist in 2020 and since then has releases some singles and the EP “Genesis” earlier this year. She talks about her style and the other types of music she explore growing up. We go into her time away from the Word of God and what brought her back, as well as sharing her faith through her music.

Born and raised in Atlanta, Georgia, Sister Shalom has called Dallas, Texas, home since 2018. She talks about some of the venues she’s been to and tackles the question: Is this her home now?

Opening this show is an excerpt from her song, “Clean Heart,” and closing the episode is the complete “Don’t Let the Devil Ride.”

The Pastor of Horror shares one his most terrifying tales

With a name like “The Pastor of Horror,” you just know this episode's going to be a good one! Author Ezekiel Kincaid joins me to talk about all things spooky, including his recently-released “The Dawning,” Book 1 in The Dreadful Death series. As always, I've got a little peek into what lies within the pages:

On a cold November night in 1817, a seven-year-old girl named Theodosia Whitefield finds a door leading to another world. She feels a pull towards a dark, celestial being who beckons her, and senses his presence growing each day. In an old rocking chair by her bed, a seeming friend appears and helps her navigate through this new world.

Little by little, Theo's innocence changes as the dark creature edges closer to her reality. The little girl begins to grow into something sinister and evil. Shedding her youth and innocence, her demon friend paves the way for Theodosia to meet the entity named Tetromet, The two meet and the horror and madness blossom in Theo, leading to unprecedented depths of terror.

The charming countryside of North Carolina makes the backdrop for the insanity and evil emanating from this child. She wreaks havoc on her family and friends as her power grows. It all comes to an insidious, nightmarish end, with questions of faith, sanity and above all, God and evil.

I've read some scary stuff over the years, and this may well be the best. Ezekiel and I talk about Theodosia, the dark being, and how she changes over the course of the series. We talk about the best ways to off a character and how it fits in with the overall story.

Ezekiel's 20-plus years in ministry have afforded him the opportunity to encounter people from all walks of life and in a myriad of situations and we talk about how this has factored into his work. We look at how he made the transition to writing and how the people in his life reacted to it.

In addition to his writing, Ezekiel has done some work in haunted house investigations and tells us how to tell the real deals from the bogus places. We also look at some of the most memorable sites he's been to. And of course, we lean how he came to be known as “The Pastor of Horror.”

Joan Law Lowell's book provides a platform to learning about the Bible

Author Joan Law Lowell and I sit down to talk about the lessons found in the Bible, but shown through a very unique lens. Her book, Teach the Little Spirits: The Ten Commandments introduces young children to the concepts of the Ten Commandments through the daily adventures of animals down on the Lord’s Little Farm.

 

Joan and I talk about how she went from concept to finished product, and some of the changes that got made along the way, including a fact-check to make sure the book was Bible-friendly. Joan also shares the worldbuilding process and the many characters to be found in the book.

Christian music artist brings us a massive collaboration

Alicia “Reese” Reisman, the songwriter behind Reese Collective, joins me to talk about her debut album, “The Journey.” This collection of Christian music has a very unique aspect—although she is the writer and creative force behind the project, every track features a different singer.

Alicia introduced us to the different artist and how she met them, as well as what they brought to the project in terms of skills and suggestions. We also talk about the stories behind each song.

After this, kick back and enjoy one of the tracks from the album, “My Everything (featuring Amy Little).”